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Home  /  Forum  /  Koffiekamer  /  Na Griekenland komt de Portugal-bom eraan !!!

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Koffiekamer« Terug naar discussie overzicht

Na Griekenland komt de Portugal-bom eraan !!!

884 Posts
Pagina: «« 1 2 3 4 5 6 ... 45 »» | Laatste | Omlaag ↓
  4. [verwijderd] 11 april 2010 18:13
    quote:

    fes schreef:

    De Portugezen, Spanjaarden en de Italianen vieren vast en zeker een feestje vanavond.
    Wat een stel idioten in de EU politiek, inclusief Trichet.
    Arme euro.

    gr.fes
    Enig idee hoeveel er aan griekse leningen uitstaat bij europese banken en pensioenfondsen ?
    Vele 10-tallen miljarden aan Griekse schuld !

    Nederland, Duitsland e.a. europese landen hebben simpelweg de keus tussen een nieuwe (maar dan europese) kredietcrisis, waarbij diverse europese grootbanken en pensioenfondsen (vrn Nederlandse) aan de afgrond bungelen, of ........ Griekenland helpen.
  6. [verwijderd] 11 april 2010 18:23
    quote:

    D.N. schreef:

    [quote=fes]
    De Portugezen, Spanjaarden en de Italianen vieren vast en zeker een feestje vanavond.
    Wat een stel idioten in de EU politiek, inclusief Trichet.
    Arme euro.

    gr.fes
    [/quote]
    Enig idee hoeveel er aan griekse leningen uitstaat bij europese banken en pensioenfondsen ?
    Vele 10-tallen miljarden aan Griekse schuld !

    Nederland, Duitsland e.a. europese landen hebben simpelweg de keus tussen een nieuwe (maar dan europese) kredietcrisis, waarbij diverse europese grootbanken en pensioenfondsen (vrn Nederlandse) aan de afgrond bungelen, of ........ Griekenland helpen.
    Eurogoud, gaat komende weken nieuwe highs opzoeken meer dan duidelijk.
  7. [verwijderd] 11 april 2010 18:37
    quote:

    vitocorleo schreef:

    [quote=D.N.]
    [quote=fes]
    De Portugezen, Spanjaarden en de Italianen vieren vast en zeker een feestje vanavond.
    Wat een stel idioten in de EU politiek, inclusief Trichet.
    Arme euro.

    gr.fes
    [/quote]
    Enig idee hoeveel er aan griekse leningen uitstaat bij europese banken en pensioenfondsen ?
    Vele 10-tallen miljarden aan Griekse schuld !

    Nederland, Duitsland e.a. europese landen hebben simpelweg de keus tussen een nieuwe (maar dan europese) kredietcrisis, waarbij diverse europese grootbanken en pensioenfondsen (vrn Nederlandse) aan de afgrond bungelen, of ........ Griekenland helpen.
    [/quote]

    Eurogoud, gaat komende weken nieuwe highs opzoeken meer dan duidelijk.
    Hangt er helemaal van af hoe de amerikaanse markten hierop zullen reageren.

    Eerst was het "euro onder de mat" waardoor de dollar (USDX) automatisch sterk steeg.
    Indien de euro, door het huidige griekse feestverhaal, weer onder de mat vandaan gehaald wordt, kan de dollar (USDX) weer flink naar beneden.

    Dit zou dan betekenen: stabilisering - of daling- eurogoud en stijging dollargoud.
    Op dat laatste (stjging dollargoud) heb ik vorige week dan ook stevig ingezet ..... aangezien ik wel verwachtte dat Griekenland door Europa uit de sores getrokken zou worden.

    We gaan zien ....
    D.N.
  8. [verwijderd] 11 april 2010 18:58
    quote:

    D.N. schreef:

    Enig idee hoeveel er aan griekse leningen uitstaat bij europese banken en pensioenfondsen ?
    Vele 10-tallen miljarden aan Griekse schuld !

    Nederland, Duitsland e.a. europese landen hebben simpelweg de keus tussen een nieuwe (maar dan europese) kredietcrisis, waarbij diverse europese grootbanken en pensioenfondsen (vrn Nederlandse) aan de afgrond bungelen, of ........ Griekenland helpen.
    De kredietverlener heeft in dit geval geen macht meer en heeft zijn macht verspeelt aan de kredietnemer.
    Er had dus eigenlijk veel eerder ingegrepen moeten worden.
    De kredietnemers (PIGS) hebben nu de macht en krijgen nu tijdelijk wat lucht, een knarsetandde kredietgever achter zich laten.
    Intussen wordt het schulden gat steeds steeds groter inclusief de onmogelijkheid om het nog ooit op te lossen.
    Zeg maar daaag euro en daaag pensioenen van de kredietgevers.....en dat zijn wij!
    gr.fes

  10. [verwijderd] 12 april 2010 09:34
    As Leo Kolivakis wrote, no one wants to admit that if debts can't be paid, they won't be.

    To no one's surprise, the EU decided they could not allow a member nation to default on its sovereign debt, not even if it was only Greece. So they've cobbled together something that's being called a "rescue plan", and everyone involved is agreeing that they have tagged all the bases:

    Euro Governments Offer Backstop

    news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100411/ap_on_bi...

    Okay, here's the purported deal:
    ? €30 billion from EU nations and another €10 billion from the IMF will cover most of the €54 billion in Greek debt that comes due this year.

    ? The money will be made available based on "a complex three-year financing formula that generates an interest rate of around 5 percent".

    ? The deal avoids the appearance of giving Greece a subsidy for their past budget sins.

    ? The rescue is finalized, awaiting only Greece's request for an EU aid package. Which is not yet forthcoming.

    So, the EU has caved in to reality, and did what Germany said they could not do. The Lisbon Treaty, which is the framework for the Euro Union, specifically said (at Germany's insistence) that no member nation would be asked to bail out any other member nation. Germany knew full well that "a nation of lazy cheaters" (as a leading German paper recently called the Greeks) might be tempted to live above their means under cover of the common currency.
    And why not, since Germany is itself currently running a deficit-to-GDP ratio of 6.3%, more than twice the Maastricht limit? And France does them one better at 7.5%.

    The "no bailouts" rule granted one exception, however. Article 122 of the Lisbon treaty allows for a bailout if a state is in financial trouble due to "exceptional circumstances beyond its control.” Germany explains that "beyond its control" meant circumstances like a spectacular earthquake. Greece believes that having a bunch of people who want to retire at 55 fills the bill.

    Now, where was I? Oh, yeah--Greece is rescued. All they have to do is formally ask for help, and their problems are solved, at least for now.
    Or are they? Does this plan really meet all the aforementioned requirements?

    Ahem......not exactly. That is, the plan isn't really there yet. For one thing, "amounts and loan conditions" remain to be specified. The EU will get right to work on that first thing Monday morning.

    Then there's this: The Greek finance minister continues to insist they don't need EU help. "George Papaconstantinou said Greece still hoped to borrow on markets rather than seeking a rescue." That's the spirit.

    The interest rate being kicked around is 5%. Like Germany said, "Greece must be required to borrow at market rates". Oops. Last week's market rate for Greece was 7.51% on the ten-year bond. The IMF is offering money at 3.26% and the 5% rate will apply to loans from the other insolvent states of the EU.

    The article gives a hint as to why amounts, rates and conditions will be worked out beginning this week: "Officials, speaking privately, told The Associated Press they first want to see how markets react on Monday."
    I guess if Greece's 10-year yield goes to 8% on Monday morning, they'll start up the redactors.

    My favorite quote comes from European Commission President Barroso: "I am convinced that it will help Greece to continue to vigorously correct public finances imbalances and to deliver the necessary structural reforms."
    Barroso doesn't explain how Greece's "public finances imbalances" will be corrected by rolling €40 billion to €80 billion in debt. It isn't simply that the interest rates are too high; Greece doesn't have the money to return maturing principal. This is only kicking a $400 billion can down the road a bit further.

    What no one is addressing is the obvious: to qualify for any aid at all, Greece has to reduce its deficit-to-GDP ratio from 12.9% to 8.7% by next year. The catch is that Greek government spending is fully half of gross domestic product. So, reducing spending to cut the deficit will also shrink the GDP, putting Athens at cross-purposes with itself. If Athens were to cut total federal spending by 20%, GDP would immediately shrink by 10%, and government revenues would tumble. Shrinking revenue means a bigger deficit side and a smaller GDP side of the equation.
    Looks like a Catch-22 to me.

    Most observers and analysts seem to agree that Greece can't possibly cut spending enough to meet the 8.7% target without triggering serious social unrest and declining living standards. This argument looks like a red herring to me: Let's just suppose that the majority are wrong, and Athens succeeds in imposing austerity measures that bring down the deficit without bringing down Greek society itself. How is a deficit of almost 9% a fix for anything?

    Greece is already insolvent right now, on the basis of current debts. They can't meet their obligations. If they succeed with their plan, a year out they will owe just as much as they do now, PLUS another 8.7% of Gross Domestic Product. They will just owe it to different creditors.
    So, how is this a "rescue plan"? I thought you'd never ask. It rescues the Swedish and other Western European banks that are currently holding Greek bonds that are losing value like a house afire. The bankers get their money back and the risk and losses are transferred to the taxpayers of EU member nations and the taxpayers of the United States, which is the largest guarantor of the IMF. See? Beavis Strauss-Kahn and Butthead Trichet are not as dumb as they look.

    Banks around the world have taken control of their respective governments, and henceforth all losses will be handed off to citizen/taxpayers, who will pay the bills through higher taxes and lower purchasing power as all currencies involved are debased together. CNBC shills will bray about strong dollars, weak Euros and collapsed lats and Kroners. Sane people will watch the price of real money

    www.stockhouse.com/Bullboards/Message...
  13. Kaiser 12 april 2010 15:56
    Duitsland wil EU-top voor Griekse steuntoekenning
    Duitsland wil Griekse steun niet zomaar toestaan.

    Als het aan Berlijn ligt, vraagt Griekenland best snel steun aan. Als grootste financier van het Grieks steunpakket, stuurt Duitsland aan op een EU-top met de regeringsleiders vooraleer de fondsen kunnen worden vrijgemaakt. Dat is niet naar de zin van de Europese Commissie.

    aiaiaiai..... roulette.... boem crash red
  19. Kaiser 13 april 2010 13:47
    The Coming European Debt Wars

    Government debt in Greece is just the first in a series of European debt bombs that are set to explode. The mortgage debts in post-Soviet economies and Iceland are more explosive. Although these countries are not in the Eurozone, most of their debts are denominated in euros. Some 87% of Latvia's debts are in euros or other foreign currencies, and are owed mainly to Swedish banks, while Hungary and Romania owe euro-debts mainly to Austrian banks. So their government borrowing by non-euro members has been to support exchange rates to pay these private sector debts to foreign banks, not to finance a domestic budget deficit as in Greece.

    more : beforeitsnews.com/news/32390/The_Comi...
  20. Kaiser 13 april 2010 16:39
    IRE Bank of Ireland (ADR) 9.13 -0.48 -4.99% 2.27B
    AIB Allied Irish Banks, pl... 3.93 -0.19 -4.61% 1.73B
    STD Banco Santander, S.A. ... 14.46 -0.09 -0.62% 118.99B
    NBG National Bank of Greec... 3.79 -0.04 -1.04% 11.50B
    RBS Royal Bank of Scotland... 13.75 -0.06 -0.43% 38.75B
    LYG Lloyds Banking Group P... 3.94 -0.06 -1.50% 65.99B
    BCS Barclays PLC (ADR) 22.22 -0.13 -0.58% 63.40B
    NABZY National Australia Ban... 25.56 -0.21 -0.81% 52.35B
    BBD Banco Bradesco SA (ADR) 18.93 -0.20 -1.05% 63.89B

    tik tak....
884 Posts
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